Beginner set up

[welding seabee]

"D", as others have said above, AMPS is your problem. Those little 120V input units are designed for casual use on light weight material such as sheet metal. Trying to weld 1/4" material would require almost full depth beveling and several layers of weld material. I have a old MW AC/DC machine that does up to 230A on AC. It comes with a 30A 220V cord that is actually too light as at full amperage output it will pop a 30A breaker. Max primary amps on label is 47A. I changed the cord to a range cord and a 50 A breaker. Welding 1/4" plate like you have I still would bevel, gap thickness of the rod, and take two passes with 1/8" rod running as hot as I can control the puddle, maybe around 125A. I don't look at the numbers on the dial as much as the puddle to set amperage. That is feel for the puddle that practice develops. The puddle of molten base and rod material is either you friend or your enemy depending on you. That technique is best initially developed with a stick (SMAW) machine. Lastly, you cannot get a sound weld laying molten rod on top, it has to get down to the bottom of the joint and build out to the top. The size of the metal deposit on top of the base material has no bearing on strength of the joint. Talking butt welds here, lap joints need weld deposit both sides the height of the base material thickness and deep penetration (high amps). I have redone many welds on shop fabricated mass produced stuff done by MIG than I want to discuss, all just laid on top, no joint fusion at all.

LOL, Ron

 

[dwross]

Thank you Seabee Ron, very good information. I am going to print your post for reference.

Thanks again,

Dennis

 

[PILOON]

Lots of sound advice.
Basically it boils down to, creative hobby or HD farm (?) repairs.
In the HD zone any decent rod machine, be it AC or DC will serve U well with main difference being duty cycles.
As an amateur welder the lower duty cycle units will be sufficient. (not planning bridge repairs?)

For hobby, yard art and small repairs probably any wire feed will suffice with a gas feed a step up.
Even smaller inverter units will be quite satisfactory.

Just remember, practice, practice and again. Weld scraps 'til none left.
Clean metal welds best!

 

[dwross]

Piloon,

Thank you for the sound advice. This forum is loaded with knowledgeable and helpful members.

There is one topic that I have been wondering about recently, safety. I have invested in gloves, aprons and head gear. What I am concerned about is what I may breath. My son-in-law alerted me to the fact that gases are released from nickel plated metals during welding. Are there others? Is welding outside of building sufficient protection, or is some type of mask or ventilator needed?

Piloon, I know that you and others will know the answer and I appreciate the replies I will receive.

Dennis

 

[dstig1]

I wear a respirator when i MIG or stick weld. TIG is such a clean process that I have not used a respirator for that, even though I probably should with Stainless. I also use it when grinding or cutting with an abrasive wheel. If you are welding outside in a breeze, it would be much less of a concern. But it is hard to weld using a gas process (MIG/TIG) if there is a breeze as that can disrupt the shield gas and ruin the weld. In a breezy area you are really left with only stick and flux core wire as decent options. You can do things to block the breeze so you can use a gas process, but that is not always effective, especially if the wind is strong.

Just a bit of terminology. It isn't a gas that comes off but is referred to as Welding Fumes. In this case fumes is a term for a particulate that is made up of solidified metal particles from the puddle that are light enough to get airborne. The hitch with fumes is that they are very good at plugging up filters in larger amounts, so some manufacturers make filters that are specially designed to not load up as quickly. What you need is a particulate filter, not a carbon cartridge for gasses/vapors. There are some filters that have a little bit of carbon in them which can help remove some odors that may occur from burning oil or paint on what you are welding also. Often referred to as "nuisance odor" filters as they are not approved for things like removing organic vapors.

 

[dwross]

Dave,

Thanks for the quick response. You have advised me before with valuable information. Your response today was outstanding. I especially liked the details you provided. It was very informative. There is now a question I should have included previously. Respirators I am familiar with are quite large. Are there special respirators designed to wear with a welding headgear?

I hate to bother you with the additional question. But if I remember correctly, you are my "seasoned welder" and I value suggestions and advice.

Thank again Dave,

Dennis

 

[CA_Bgrwldr]

They make slim respirators that work for most with their hoods, you can find them on most welding supply sites, like cyberweld.com, but right now pickings ars slim due to covid-19.

If there is a good breeze, and the fumes(smoke) moves away from you, it should be good enough. I like to use a fan to draw the fumes away outside, as it seems to never fail I end up in a position where the breeze causes fumes to swirl up under my hood, where they don't when I use the fan.

 

[dwross]

CA_Bgwider, Thanks for the follow up, and the website. As a beginner I realy appreciate it

Stay safe,

Dennis

 

[dstig1]

There are some half facepiece respirators (cover nose and mouth only) that are designed to be closer to the face to fit better under a welding shield. Also you should look for ones where the exhaled air is directed downward or to the rear so that they don't fog the lens of the welding shield. There aren't any perfect solutions. All half masks take space and will probably require the welding shield to be set out a bit farther from your face than you may prefer (many are adjustable this way). There are really nice integrated systems with a blower on your belt that feed a welding helmet where you get a nice breeze in the headgear but the tradeoff there is cost - Easily $1-2k for those things. Like I said - no perfect solution.

 

[Lis2323]

As dstig said there are no perfect solutions.

One method to consider would be a fume extractor.

 

[dwross]

Thanks to both of you, more good information.

Dennia

 

[Gary Fowler]

I also started out welding on the farm with a Lincoln 225 Amp tombstone AC only machine. This was after I had learned welding from experts in pipe welding on a construction job. It welded 7018 but you really had to keep the arc close (and just a few thousandth of an inch too close and it would stick). It was a bit hard to start also. But I managed to build 2 each 8 wide x 30 feet long cotton hauling trailers. The only store bought thing on them other than the 6011 and 7018 rods was the axle spindles, rims and tires. Nothing ever broke on them and we routinely loaded 12,000 pound of cotton on them. We had $500 in material invested in each one which was about 1/4 of the value of a new store bought trailer.
So fast forward 50 years and I now have a Miller AC/DC 250 amp transformer type welder and a couple of baby inverter style wire feed welders for sheet meta plus an oxy-fuel torch. Am now looking at purchasing a Plasma cutter.

 

[dwross]

Thanks Gary,
Interesting story of welding evolution .

Dwross

 

[Gary Fowler]

I am a beginner.......an old beginner. I wanted to try my hand at welding knowing fully well that the proper technique requires practice, practice and more practice. I guess you would say I would be a hobbist. I hoped to repair or make things. The only thing I wanted to repair were the skids and blade of my snow blower. Because of my age and fixed income, I wanted to get in as cheaply as possible. Last Fall I purchased a Harbor Freight Flux Wire welder for less than $100....cheap. I spent that or more on a few tools and safety equipment. I practiced some, not enough, under my son-in-law's supervision. I did work on my snow blower parts because Winter was coming. I was successful welding new surfaces on the parts and they lasted through the Winter. The welding did not look good, but it was serviceable. With a little coat of paint, no one seemed to notice. And, repairing those parts saved buying new parts whose cost was nearly the price of the welder. Good justification for my wife.

I did learn a limitation which did not surprise me. I tried to weld a couple of parts for my son. They were much heavier metal than I had been work with. Of course the welds did not hold.

There are know repairs or projects on my calendar so all I have to do is practice.

I have read through this thread and will take many of the suggestions offered here. I am sure I will be back when I have a question or many questions.

Thank all of you for your posts!

With your small welder, try preheating the piece with what ever torch you have. A propane weed burner is great for preheating a large piece and cheap to buy and use (only needs propane). Also dont try to make a one pass weld, make several small passes of not more than 1/4" wide. Any equipment mfg that says will weld up to 3/8 or up to 1/2" is either full of shxx or doesnt know what they are talking about. That is like saying you can only weld 1/4" thick plate with a 3/32 rod. If you make enough passes, you can weld unlimited thickness with any machine or rod.
Having said that, the more amps you can push out, the better you are able to use any machine. A 140-170 amp MIG machine will do about any thing you want to do but it may be a bit slow compared to a 200 or higher amp rated machine. Also you have to look at the duty cycle. A 140 amp may have a 10% duty cycle at 140 and 35% at 100 amps. Duty cycle is how long you can weld vs how long it needs to cool. A 10% duty cycle is 1 minute of welding to 10 minutes of resting. You might weld for 10 minutes before the thermostat shuts down and have to rest for 90 minutes or until the machine cools off.

You can spend a lot of money on cheaper machines that dont perform well before you decide to invest in a good machine. A medium power machine is going to be at least $650 for Chinese made and Miller will cost you way over $1500 for the same rated machine.

I just mainly do hobby welding so I got a HF Titanium 125 amp FCAW machine to complement my Miller AC/DC stick machine. A couple weeks ago, I bought a plasma cutter that also stick welds and came with a high frequency TIG torch that is supposed to be able to weld aluminum and steel. It welds steel fine, havent worked with the aluminum yet (no weld rods). That is my next project.

 

[dwross]

With your small welder, try preheating the piece with what ever torch you have. A propane weed burner is great for preheating a large piece and cheap to buy and use (only needs propane). Also dont try to make a one pass weld, make several small passes of not more than 1/4" wide. Any equipment mfg that says will weld up to 3/8 or up to 1/2" is either full of shxx or doesnt know what they are talking about. That is like saying you can only weld 1/4" thick plate with a 3/32 rod. If you make enough passes, you can weld unlimited thickness with any machine or rod.
Having said that, the more amps you can push out, the better you are able to use any machine. A 140-170 amp MIG machine will do about any thing you want to do but it may be a bit slow compared to a 200 or higher amp rated machine. Also you have to look at the duty cycle. A 140 amp may have a 10% duty cycle at 140 and 35% at 100 amps. Duty cycle is how long you can weld vs how long it needs to cool. A 10% duty cycle is 1 minute of welding to 10 minutes of resting. You might weld for 10 minutes before the thermostat shuts down and have to rest for 90 minutes or until the machine cools off.

You can spend a lot of money on cheaper machines that dont perform well before you decide to invest in a good machine. A medium power machine is going to be at least $650 for Chinese made and Miller will cost you way over $1500 for the same rated machine.

I just mainly do hobby welding so I got a HF Titanium 125 amp FCAW machine to complement my Miller AC/DC stick machine. A couple weeks ago, I bought a plasma cutter that also stick welds and came with a high frequency TIG torch that is supposed to be able to weld aluminum and steel. It welds steel fine, havent worked with the aluminum yet (no weld rods). That is my next project.

Gary,

Thank you for this post. You have provided me with more information that is new to me. It appears I may be able to squeeze better results out of the cheap flux welder I have. I am still looking for a used stick welder, as recommended, to advance my welding skill. I have only found high end units that are not cheap.

This is a great forum. You, Gary, and other knowledgeable members of this forum are willing to share your knowledge and expertise with "wanabe" welders. your time and effort are really appreciated.

D Ross

 

[California]

An alternative to heating with a weed burner is the high-output burner used with an outdoor turkey fryer. Working over this burner helped when I re-attached broken feet onto cast iron lawn furniture using nckel rod. About 10x the heat of a kitchen stove!

 

[Gary Fowler]

Contrary to popular hobbist believe, MIG is not the easiest to be proficient in. It is easiest to make a bead but the bead may not hold much. MIG welders, especially the cheaper ones are famous for producing bad welds that look good but are not well fused at the base.

Most if not all welding schools will start students out with the basics of stick rod welding. A beginner needs to learn the basics of arc length, metallurgy and how to interpret the numbers on welding electrodes. Also very important is amperage adjustment and control plus be able to identify defects in a weld and how to correct/prevent them. There is just a few items with stick rod that contribute to a bad weld: improper amperage, wrong arc length, wrong travel speed or wrong welding rod used. There is a multitude of things with MIG that can go wrong in addition to the ones listed above.

Sure it is hard to strike an arc with a stick rod in comparison to just pulling the trigger on a MIG gun, but it is not impossible to learn is just a few minutes. I always told students to start like you are striking a match, not like you are stabbing a steak. If you stab at the work piece with your rod, it will stick 90% of the time but if you rake it like you would a kitchen match then it usually lights right up.

Getting the basics and learning to watch the puddle rather than the rod will work for you with any process and is best learned with stick welding (SMAW).

 

[Gary Fowler]

I just watched the video posted by MrPrice is Right and the old guy makes a lot of sense with his learning curve diagram. With stick, you have a quick learning curve from flat to where you start up the scale with your ability. It only takes one lesson (if you have a natural ability) to learn how to strike an arc, how the right length and how to adjust the travel speed. Without a natural ability for mechanical things, no amount of practice will make you a pro, you will get somewhat better with practice but will hit a plateau and that is high as you will get.

For those with a natural ability, then it is just practice to where all this knowledge becomes automatic to the hands to keep the arc length the same while travelling at the same speed. The reason machines make such pretty welds is because they keep the same arc length and travel speed so the weld stay perfectly uniform. With lots of practice a person can do the same thing. I worked with a welder once who was so good that his welds looked machine welded. When I commented about how good it looked, his response was that if he got any slicker he would have to tack weld it to keep the bead from sliding off LOL.

 

[Gary Fowler]

For folks wanting to learn how to stick 2 pieces of metal together, the way to start is with a DC stick machine. How you get there depends on your budget but inverter machines up to about 160 amps are not too high priced that anyone can afford them. 160 amps is more than you will need to weld 1/8" rods of any type. I would start with 1/8" 6010 and 3/32 " 7018. With those you can weld just about anything on a farm or hobby shop.

The top of the pile would be an AC/DC machine with High Frequency that you can weld aluminum with.
I did see an attachment call ARCPIG that you can hook to any old buzz box like the AC Lincoln tombstone and weld aluminum .

Some of those old Lincoln tombstone machines were AC/DC and might be found fairly cheap, then add the ARCPIG and a TIG rig and you could be set to weld anything you wanted. The drawback to the ARCPIG is the price $350 but with that and the AC/DC machine of your craiglist find, you could be fixed for welding anything you want for around $500 assuming your welding machine find is under $200.

 

[California]

It occurred to me this might be helpful to a new welder owner:

Ikea has a jumbo shopping bag made of blue-tarp material. Dimensions are great for a welder cover: 21 3/4" long, 13 3/4" wide, 14 1/2" tall.
$0.99, or two for $6 from Amazon.

I use these over my welders.

FRAKTA shopping bag, large, blue, 21 ¾x14 ½x13 ¾"/19 gallon - IKEA

FRAKTA shopping bag, large, blue, 21 ¾x14 ½x13 ¾"/19 gallon After 30 years in our range, it’s one of the most hardworking bags in the world. It’s big and strong and carries most things. Be it shopping, doing laundry or going to the beach, it goes wherever you go. Also suitable for recycling.

www.ikea.com