Welding cable length question?

poncho62

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My old welder, the cable that the rod holder is one is about 15 ft long. The ground cable, I bet is 25 to 30 ft long, maybe longer. It is also thicker.

Question is, does this matter? I know with electricity, the longer a wire, the more resistance it has. Would I be better to make the lengths equal?
 

Don_

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It is also thicker.

The extra thickness should make up for the length.
I just replaced the work cable on my Hobart MIG, it's 11 years old and has been well used. I replaced the old one with 25 feet of 4 gauge as recommended for the amperage.
I find the longer length helpful and gives me the ability to move the welder around to get the best angle for the torch to work at an optimal angle for the feed to work best.
I also replaced the clamp with one having copper teeth on both surfaces.
Love Amazon for things like that.
Don_
.
 

cwby

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No need to make them equal. I use 100' on my stinger & 50' on my work cable. Cables are sized depending on AMPs & length. If they aren't getting hot when you are welding for any length of time they are big enough. The welder is adjusaible - turn it up of you need more current at the rod. Check cables & connectors for heat if you need to.
 

g_man

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I would rather have the short cable on the work clamp too. Then you have more reach with the rod holder w/o moving anything. Changing them around should not make any difference if you want to make the change.

gg
 

welding seabee

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Here is a cable (called lead in the trade) story from the archives. In my younger days as a pipefitter; at times we worked in the commercial ship yards. When starting out welders drug there lead from their assigned machine to the first work site. As time went on and work locations changed, guess what; they just added more lead to get to the next. With 50+ welders on a ship pretty soon all the back up lead in the tool room would be consumed and strung around and up/down on the ship (it was all 4/O wire). Then management called out a "pull leads" day. The best record I recall was a welder and his helper turned in over 2000' of that cable. Imagine packing all that stuff in 50" sections (all a man can carry is 2 sections, over his shoulders, over 1000' back to the tool room. Then the helpers all went back and cleaned up all the lead that had been disconnected and left laying around the ship. Welders had to keep increasing the amperage to compensate, some leads would get hot enough to evaporate rain on contact.

Ron
 

PILOON

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North of Montreal
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My old welder, the cable that the rod holder is one is about 15 ft long. The ground cable, I bet is 25 to 30 ft long, maybe longer. It is also thicker.

Question is, does this matter? I know with electricity, the longer a wire, the more resistance it has. Would I be better to make the lengths equal?

Were it me I'd switch the leads as the rod holder lead when longer allows U more flexibility to be better positioned for all angle welds.
Now that is specially handy welding on large items like a tractor or other vehicle.
Assuming an AC welder which cable is ground or stick does not matter.
 

hill-billy

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Good to meet everyone, I'm more of a reader than poster.
Welding Sea-bee, I can relate to your post about miles of leads on job sites.
I have been a welder at power plants for 30 years. I remember on occasion, when I would return after lunch and find someone else leads in my machine. After following the leads from the machine to the person welding, I would ask them to do the right thing and get a machine of their own. For some reason it was always easier to find leads than a machine.
If they didn't want to comply, I would take an electrode and grind it to a point and put it in a stinger (from the machine that I had to go and get and set up). I would crank up the amps on my machine and jam the rod into the leads of the person that stole my other machine. Something about blowing his arc apart while he welded (1,000 feet away) made you feel better because the guy was a jerk. Most people I worked with were great, but every now and again.....
I've matured and calmed since my younger days. I am an instructor now.
After 30 years, I actually just bought a welding machine for home use. Kind of embarrassing to say that!
 

CB

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@poncho62 If you do end up reconfiguring your leads, consider some or all parts of the following plan:

1. Make quick disconnects at the machine itself. Commercial and industrial power supplies, as well as engine drives, already have studs or quick disconnects. But some of the home / farm / hobby power supplies do not, such as the ubiquitous Lincoln tombstone (not the curved top Idealarc, but the angle top AC225 and AC/DC 225) that have the leads directly wired in to the machine. If you are going to be swapping built in leads around anyway, why not install cabinet mounted through panel disconnets, or install very short 6" leads out of the machine with Tweco or Lenco camlock disconnects, clearly marked positive and negative.

This has several benefits. The machine can be moved easier, because it can be readily divorced from the leads for transport and rapidly reconnected again. The weight of the heavy leads can be separated from the weight of the heavy transformer, which sometimes makes a big difference in being able to move the thing from point A to point B, the older we get (I've noticed many of the members here are retired, not strapping young lads). The other benefits of quick disconnects at the machine itself (if yours doesn't already have them) will become self-evident in the subsequent points below.

2. Make two whips. A work clamp whip, and a stinger whip. The whips can be between 8 to 15 feet long. I'd aim somewhere in the upper middle, around 12' long, but the exact length chosen might be influenced by what cable you can obtain, recycle from the machine being modified, or already have on hand. Ideally, the whips should be of lighter, more supple cabling, with higher, thinner strand count for flexibility, and EPDM jacketing for suppleness. These whips are short leads, so they'll be by you at all times, not being run over by a forklift 100 feet away. The exact gauge size will be dictated by the maximum current output of your machine, but the idea is to meet the gauge requirement only for the short distance between the machine and the end of the whip.

3. Make two heavy leads, with quick disconnects at each end, male on one end, female on the other. These heavy leads can be anywhere from 20' to 50' long. If I make anymore of these for myself, I'd probably make them 25' long. These should be heavy gauge, in the aughts if you plan on making more than just two and daisy chaining them, as @hill-billy and @welding seabee described in their war stories from work posted previously above. With a constellation of at least two of these heavy extension leads and your light whips, you'll have between 30' to 60' of reach away from the machine (depending on how long you choose to make your two classes of leads).

You can't lose with this set up... except for the costs of the cable and the constellation of quick disconnects to make it. But these costs can all be recouped by selling the leads individually or as a set separate and apart from the welding machine itself, because the leads can be used on any machine.

With easily separable leads, you only need run the length of lead that you need. In a home shop environment, it will usually only be the two whips. But if having to weld a metal gate post on the fence line, the welding machine can stay put, and the heavy leads can be rolled out as required, with the light whips clicked in at the ends of the heavy leads. My DC power supply doesn't have a polarity switch, but the quick disconnects enable me to easily change polarity when desired. The welding set up can also be stored more compactly, by not having all the lead roped around the power supply.

Just a suggestion, if you are planning on reworking the leads to your machine anyway.
 

welding seabee

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On he subject of longer leads:
If you have the money for new cable they now make them in black and red for polarity quick ID, you can even by in sets of one each. I paint the ends of one lead Red as I am cheap. I watch for lead material at garage sales and auctions. One time was at the scrap yard dropping off some stuff; noted a pile of #4 welding lead (200") that had some insulation flaws but a lot of good. Bought it for 20% over scrap value. Fixed up a lot of friends plus had plenty for myself, as if I needed it.

Be careful making up smaller cable into whips as there is a lot of space inside the wire socket. I have used pieces of copper tube to help. Also I always solder the wire into the socket. Use rosin core or separate rosin flux and be careful of heat as the rosin burns easy. I have had connectors burn up due to inadequate contact under the screw. The shipyard where I worked once in awhile had a hot pot of solder and one of rosin heated and ready all the time as with miles of lead they were making repairs all the time. Dip the wire and connector in rosin, then in the solder to tin it,then dip and pour the solder into the socket, and shove the wire in.

I kike the threaded C clamp type work lead end for most applications, especially to the bench. Also have the standard clamp type in case I need it.

All this stuff is on Amazon and 1/2 the price as the welding store.

Don't leave part of you long leads rolled up when using, your are creating a big electro-magnet. It can create strange things with the arc, commonly called arc-blow. Use only the length you need and stretch it out. Arc blow is a study all its own. Recommend you read up on it so you can identify it. Conversely, you can negate the effects by taking a couple wraps of lead around the work. For some reason I have never had a problem with it where others do.

Ron
 

sonny580

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My Lincolns came with 15 foot grounds and 20 foot rod holder cables. ---- I made up some extensions for them to use on the "now-and-then" use. also found I could make up a 49 foot power cord to plug the welder itself into. All of this gets me anywhere in the immediate area to weld on anything that will fit in there. ---Beyond that area I gotta drag out the portable "weld-an-power" lincoln.
 

Gary Fowler

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For most home welders, 1/0 cable will be plenty heavy for any welding. Lots of heavy construction will use 4/0 but that is because they may end up with several hundred feet of cable added on. 1/0 will be good for 200 amps x 200 feet or more.
I always used #4 welding cable for my electrode "whip cable" and made it 20 feet long. It is more than capable of carrying 200 amp loads for extended periods of time without overheating. When buying Tweco connectors, make sure you get the smaller ones for the whip lead, nothing worse than trying to fill a 4/0 hole with #4 cable.
 

welding seabee

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Yeh Gary, as construction guys like us know, DC has a lot more cable loss than AC so cable size is important for long DC runs; not so much for voltage drop but the amp capacity drop. Even the average electrician does not really understand DC power distribution as they never encounter it. On long runs they have short sections at the beginning and ends of the proper size for the ampacity, then the long section is sized for the voltage drop. Size change can be significant as the runs get to 1000' like in powerhouses.

For my stuff here at home #2 whips work good and doesn't drag on your arms.Very seldom do we keep a sustained arc going for long enough for it to get hot. Back to the real work arena; we kept our stinger whip to about 10' to make it easier to carry. Stinger was ours but lead to hook to was a grab bag sometimes when many welders were around.

Here you on the Tweco connector size. For our 200A +/- welders no need to have the heavy cable and big connectors. Contact is why I solder them in using copper tube spacer.

Ron
 

welding seabee

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For most home welders, 1/0 cable will be plenty heavy for any welding. Lots of heavy construction will use 4/0 but that is because they may end up with several hundred feet of cable added on. 1/0 will be good for 200 amps x 200 feet or more.
I always used #4 welding cable for my electrode "whip cable" and made it 20 feet long. It is more than capable of carrying 200 amp loads for extended periods of time without overheating. When buying Tweco connectors, make sure you get the smaller ones for the whip lead, nothing worse than trying to fill a 4/0 hole with #4 cable.
Interesting side light to my dissertation: Quite a show to watch a Boilermaker doing a deck closure patch on a ship using 3/16 7018 rod. They wind up with a 3/4" wide cover pass w/o weaving. Talking 1/2" steel beveled one side. They have fun sometimes making the root pass as the flame cutting is always less than perfect.

Ron
 

Lis2323

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@poncho62 If you do end up reconfiguring your leads, consider some or all parts of the following plan:

1. Make quick disconnects at the machine itself. Commercial and industrial power supplies, as well as engine drives, already have studs or quick disconnects. But some of the home / farm / hobby power supplies do not, such as the ubiquitous Lincoln tombstone (not the curved top Idealarc, but the angle top AC225 and AC/DC 225) that have the leads directly wired in to the machine. If you are going to be swapping built in leads around anyway, why not install cabinet mounted through panel disconnets, or install very short 6" leads out of the machine with Tweco or Lenco camlock disconnects, clearly marked positive and negative.

This has several benefits. The machine can be moved easier, because it can be readily divorced from the leads for transport and rapidly reconnected again. The weight of the heavy leads can be separated from the weight of the heavy transformer, which sometimes makes a big difference in being able to move the thing from point A to point B, the older we get (I've noticed many of the members here are retired, not strapping young lads). The other benefits of quick disconnects at the machine itself (if yours doesn't already have them) will become self-evident in the subsequent points below.

2. Make two whips. A work clamp whip, and a stinger whip. The whips can be between 8 to 15 feet long. I'd aim somewhere in the upper middle, around 12' long, but the exact length chosen might be influenced by what cable you can obtain, recycle from the machine being modified, or already have on hand. Ideally, the whips should be of lighter, more supple cabling, with higher, thinner strand count for flexibility, and EPDM jacketing for suppleness. These whips are short leads, so they'll be by you at all times, not being run over by a forklift 100 feet away. The exact gauge size will be dictated by the maximum current output of your machine, but the idea is to meet the gauge requirement only for the short distance between the machine and the end of the whip.

3. Make two heavy leads, with quick disconnects at each end, male on one end, female on the other. These heavy leads can be anywhere from 20' to 50' long. If I make anymore of these for myself, I'd probably make them 25' long. These should be heavy gauge, in the aughts if you plan on making more than just two and daisy chaining them, as @hill-billy and @welding seabee described in their war stories from work posted previously above. With a constellation of at least two of these heavy extension leads and your light whips, you'll have between 30' to 60' of reach away from the machine (depending on how long you choose to make your two classes of leads).

You can't lose with this set up... except for the costs of the cable and the constellation of quick disconnects to make it. But these costs can all be recouped by selling the leads individually or as a set separate and apart from the welding machine itself, because the leads can be used on any machine.

With easily separable leads, you only need run the length of lead that you need. In a home shop environment, it will usually only be the two whips. But if having to weld a metal gate post on the fence line, the welding machine can stay put, and the heavy leads can be rolled out as required, with the light whips clicked in at the ends of the heavy leads. My DC power supply doesn't have a polarity switch, but the quick disconnects enable me to easily change polarity when desired. The welding set up can also be stored more compactly, by not having all the lead roped around the power supply.

Just a suggestion, if you are planning on reworking the leads to your machine anyway.

All good info!^^^^.
 

CB

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Continuing with the list, inspired by @Gary Fowler and @welding seabee excellent comments...

Let me first caution anyone considering the first three points above, and/or the additional two points below... that I am fond of the senile old goat who abdicated his throne to his daughters while he was still alive and somewhat able to rule, reserving for himself however "100 Knights", as Shakespeare writes in King Lear. Unsatisfied with the kingdom and power they were already bestowed, the ungrateful daughters questioned the former King what need he had for 100 Knights?... to which the angry, aging, abdicating father replied... "REASON NOT THE NEED!".

In other words... he likes his 4/0 cable for extension runs, whether needed or not!

And, it will be easier for your daughters to sell the 4/0 cable to other weldors (and car stereo loving thumpers) when your kingdom comes to an involuntary end.

4. On the cam lock connectors, there are single oval point screw types, and double oval point screw types. The difference between them is mere money, and, the double oval point screw types can exert double the clamp load on the cable inserted, for twice the friction to keep the cable inside the connector, as a single point is always a pivot point, but a double point fixes a line, even if only a 1/2" long line, already contained inside the "cup" of the back end of the connector. Another Knight, not a heat sensitive sold(i)er.

5. One can get cable gauge appropriate double oval point screw set cam lock connectors... to avoid field fabrication follies farting around finding the right size copper tubing. If, for whatever reason, the cable or cable insulation gets damaged to the point where one needs to cut and reconnect what remains of the cable, a gauge size appropriate connector enables an immediate field repair with nothing more than a pocket knife and a screw driver, without hunting for the piece of copper tubing having the right inside and outside diameter to serve as a bushing for the oversized connector relative to cable gauge.

So, get one size for the supple whip (with smaller ID for the inserted cable end), and another size for the heavy extensions (with larger ID for the inserted cable end). The cam locking ends interconnect interchangeably between the two sizes... only the cable insertion ends differ in ID, for the appropriate cable gauge size. Speaking of the cam locking end though, it might be best to stick with one manufacturer for all the connectors (ie, all Lenco, or all Tweco), to guarantee precise interchange and fit, not just of the brass cam lock, but of the surrounding protective jacket interface. Yet another Knight.
 
Last edited:

jnh92

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San Antonio
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Weekender
My old welder, the cable that the rod holder is one is about 15 ft long. The ground cable, I bet is 25 to 30 ft long, maybe longer. It is also thicker.

Question is, does this matter? I know with electricity, the longer a wire, the more resistance it has. Would I be better to make the lengths equal?
I just purchase a #2,
My old welder, the cable that the rod holder is one is about 15 ft long. The ground cable, I bet is 25 to 30 ft long, maybe longer. It is also thicker.

Question is, does this matter? I know with electricity, the longer a wire, the more resistance it has. Would I be better to make the lengths equal?
I just purchased a #2, 50ft ground and work cable from Northern Tools for $214, they are Hobart and are complete with work handle and ground clamp. Cheapest anywhere I was able to find.
 

Lis2323

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Speaking of the cam locking end though, it might be best to stick with one manufacturer for all the connectors (ie, all Lenco, or all Tweco), to guarantee precise interchange and fit, not just of the brass cam lock, but of the surrounding protective jacket interface. Yet another Knight.

Wow CB you are the Wikipedia of cam lock weld cable connectors. .

Excellent advice on all Lenco or all Tweco but sometimes we (I) acquire used equipment and cables and the male end(s) may require a light sanding.
 
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