Stick as compared to mig.

[propane1]

Ok. Welding with stick as compared to mig. ?????
Made a patch for my truck box today. Tried to weld it in. Used 6013 1/16 rods. At about 40 amps. Stick welder. Cleaned all metal before welding. Both sides, If I could get at it. Welds would snap after a little bit and not hold. Redid most of them. And no better. So I got out the mig welder. Not happy about that. Any way, after a bit I was getting it welded. Lots of adjustment with wire feed. Only settings are 35 and 70 amps. So I did most of the welds over in the same spots and new spots. Seems to be holding. Basically, both welders were set about the same. Why would the AC 6013 rods not hold. And the mig would. ?????

Noel

 

[dstig1]

Hard to say but Stick is not what you would call a "detail" or precision process... A very experienced user can do it, but i always found it really hard to control for delicate stuff like welding expanded metal to something. When i got my wire feeder i was in heaven for all that stuff.... Now that I have TIG, it is even easier, though TIG is challenging in it's own right.

 

[SIO]

Ok. Welding with stick as compared to mig. ?????
Made a patch for my truck box today. Tried to weld it in. Used 6013 1/16 rods. At about 40 amps. Stick welder. Cleaned all metal before welding. Both sides, If I could get at it. Welds would snap after a little bit and not hold. Redid most of them. And no better. So I got out the mig welder. Not happy about that. Any way, after a bit I was getting it welded. Lots of adjustment with wire feed. Only settings are 35 and 70 amps. So I did most of the welds over in the same spots and new spots. Seems to be holding. Basically, both welders were set about the same. Why would the AC 6013 rods not hold. And the mig would. ?????

Noel

How thick was the material you were working with?

 

[propane1]

SIO. It was 3/64th.

Noel

 

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well... Not being smart but, they invented MIG for a reason!

Now you have first hand knowledge why.

Smaller wire dia. and lower amps would of helped also!

 

[Dirt Guy]

Hi Propane1 6013, at 40 amps won"t work to well. If you are on ac even worse. Mig is the way to go. Try .024 wire and move around on your work piece as to not have to much heat build up. Takes a while this way, but it works.

 

[axeman79]

Ok. Welding with stick as compared to mig. ?????
Made a patch for my truck box today. Tried to weld it in. Used 6013 1/16 rods. At about 40 amps. Stick welder. Cleaned all metal before welding. Both sides, If I could get at it. Welds would snap after a little bit and not hold. Redid most of them. And no better. So I got out the mig welder. Not happy about that. Any way, after a bit I was getting it welded. Lots of adjustment with wire feed. Only settings are 35 and 70 amps. So I did most of the welds over in the same spots and new spots. Seems to be holding. Basically, both welders were set about the same. Why would the AC 6013 rods not hold. And the mig would. ?????

Noel

What was the polarity on the stick? Electrode negative would have burned the rod faster with less penetration. MIG is electrode positive (reverse polarity) which would give better penetration.

 

[propane1]

Axeman, I have a AC stick welder, which is what I was useing. The rod holder would be positive and ground clamp would be negative ? Would that be correct ?

Noel

 

[SIO]

Axeman, I have a AC stick welder, which is what I was useing. The rod holder would be positive and ground clamp would be negative ? Would that be correct ?

Noel

That is incorrect. With AC, your polarity is constantly switching back and forth, (hence the "alternating current" nomenclature), which is the reason that it's not as smooth as DC.

 

[PILOON]

Yep! With an AC stick welder use whichever is the most convenient.
Most will install the rod holder on the longer lead simply for convenience and flexibility..

 

[propane1]

Thanks for your reply’s members.
Noel

 

[Gary Fowler]

The rod you used is not that great of a rod even on thicker metal. Your MIG wire is 70K tensile strength compared to the 6013 of only 60K tensile strength and it is shielded from atmosphere so some oxidation is prevented. Your MIG might have been set at the same amperage but the arc is more concentrated so less heat input.

Welding car body parts requires a lot of spot welding then spot welding in between the spots then spot welding in between the in between and continue till it has been solid welded. Then you can grind off the excess metal.

 

[Teachu2]

If I was using that welder, I'd use 7018 3/32" at 90. It's as easy as it gets for sheet metal on AC stick. It's a smooth arc, low penetration, but has to be dry when you use it. An hour at 500 in the oven does the trick. If you drag it, it lays down a pretty bead and the slag peels up behind it as it cools.

If you buy it for a project, make sure the wrapper is sealed. I keep mine in one of those plastic rod holders wirh the seal, and close it except to withdraw a rod. In higher humidity, I used to use a 120V rod oven. These days, I use a Mig on humid days, or wait for better weather.

I had a little project last week that needed a weld, and I grabbed an old 7018 1/8" out of my plastic holder, set the old tombstone on 140 ac, and went to town. Ran just fine, and a lot quicker than typing this post....

See https://welderpick.com/6013-vs-7018-welding-electrodes-compared/ for comparison of 6013 vs 7018.

 

[Gary Fowler]

In regard to MIG/FCAW vs stick I have to say that each has its place. I was hit with sticker shock yesterday when I bought some 3/32" Lincoln E7018. The cost for a 50# box was $186. In 2009 I purchased a lot of rods when I built my shop for $1 per pound. Now over $3 per pound but still cheaper than MIG or FCAW wire by 50%. I havent researched the calculations of weld deposit rate per pound of electrode but I would suspect FCAW wire to be about the same as stick and MIG wire being about triple higher than stick per pound. The cost of Lincoln wire (last time I bought) was $14 per pound so much more expensive than stick but if the deposit rate is 3 times more then cost is similar without figuring in the cost of shield gas.

It seems we are screwed either way we go for cost of electrode not to mention the cost of steel. It has just about gotten to the point of me not doing any projects with steel (or lumber for that matter). I still open my shop for weld repair jobs when asked but that is all I want to do right now.

 

[California]

It's not like the Before Times any more.

Looks like it will be a while, before things go back to what we remember. If ever!

 

[welding seabee]

I don't have MIG so use stick or O/A. I would never try to weld material as thin as the OP's with arc. I would use my Victor O/A with a 00 nozzle. Gaps are a big problem with sheet metal. A tight fit is best no matter what you use to weld it. I don't gap till approaching around 1/8" with Ground negative DC 6010 or ground positive with 6013. I have run 6013 with AC but do not like too. MIG does not like outdoor air currents except when using flux core. A little breeze blows your shield gas away. You can't beat stick rod for outside work in the field.

Ron

 

[PILOON]

I've often used CLICKOS (an aviation device) to temporarily hold thin stock aligned for welding.
I sort of acts like a temporarily fastener via tiny 1/8" holes and thus prevents contraction as the welds cool down.
The contraction of cooling metal is most often what causes those slim welds to pop apart.
I.E. the contraction overpowers the weld strength on a cooling weld until the weld is fully cool.

Make sense?